As Kevin Goldstein noted, Monday, December 14, 2010 may go down as one of the 10 best baseball nights in the history of Twitter. The night had it all: accounts successfully replicating those of very reliable sources to pull a prank, subsequently sending everyone and their followers into a veritable frenzy, the cream of the free-agent crop signing a lucrative contract, the revelation of a mystery team akin to a turn in a wrestling story line, and practically anyone that cares about baseball emotionally invested in every twist and turn. When the dust settled, Cliff Lee had agreed in principle to sign with the Philadelphia Phillies, a year to the day after Ruben Amaro Jr. acquired Roy Halladay and 363 days after Amaro traded Lee to the Mariners in a companion deal that drew the ire of every Phillies fan. The news was shocking, as it had seemed for weeks that Lee’s decision would boil down to the Yankees or Rangers. After all, both were contending teams making big offers.
The Nationals were reportedly interested but never considered serious candidates. The Phillies were barely mentioned as a possible destination as the whole situation seemingly surfaced out of thin air. In what felt like the blink of an eye, the Phillies added Lee to a rotation already boasting Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt, and Cole Hamels. Four aces. Four pitchers who could easily top the rotations for at least two-thirds of the teams in both leagues were suddenly all in the same rotation. Phillies fans who had grown accustomed to the term “No. 1 pitcher” coinciding with the arrivals of Omar Daal, Robert Person, Kevin Millwood, and Jon Lieber now got to stake claim to four legitimate aces. From 2008-10, Roy Halladay led all pitchers in aggregate SNLVAR, Cliff Lee ranked sixth, and Roy Oswalt and Cole Hamels tied for the 12th spot on the leaderboard. In other words, four of the top 15 pitchers in the game over the last three seasons will now be pitching together. Here we will examine where this fearsome foursome ranks historically based on their production leading into the year they pitch together. But first, how did this all come to be?
Everything started in July 2009, when the Phillies were plodding along with an inconsistent starting rotation. They sent Lou Marson, Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco, and Jason Knapp to the Indians for Lee and Ben Francisco. Lee propelled the team to the World Series, but the Yankees proved to be too much to handle. Halladay joined the team in December 2009, with the Phillies unloading Kyle Drabek, Travis d’Arnaud, and Michael Taylor. To make the finances work, Amaro sent Lee to the Mariners a mere two days later for Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gilles, and J.C. Ramirez. When it seemed that the combination of Halladay and Hamels was not going to be enough to push the Phillies into the playoffs, Amaro turned around and dealt J.A. Happ, Anthony Gose, and Jonathan Villar to the Astros for ace righty Roy Oswalt. The H2O trio dominated down the stretch, but the Phillies fell short of their third straight pennant by falling to the Giants in the National League Championship Series.
Despite falling short of their goal, optimism persisted as the Phils were set to get a full season from Oswalt, and it seemed increasingly likely that the offensive production from Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, and Shane Victorino would all improve—all four spent time on the disabled list last season. Adding 33 starts from one of the very few pitchers worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Halladay was just icing on top of an already delicious-looking cake. Essentially, the Phillies traded one top-flight pitching prospect in Drabek, a mid-level pitching prospect in Carrasco, a lefty starter with mid-rotation upside in Happ, and a pu-pu platter of depth for Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Francisco, and the three prospects received when Lee was originally sent to the Mariners.
With the introductions out of the way, does this shape up to be, on paper, the best rotation ever assembled? It may sound hyperbolic, and I am certainly wont to exude hyperbole at times, but I do not think I am reaching by suggesting that the Phillies’ rotation, aptly nicknamed R2C2, could become the gold standard for starting staffs. I do not necessarily think it is a stretch to think that a decade from now they might supplant the mid-‘90s Braves staffs as the go-to example of the best rotation assembled. But how can we find out where they rank preemptively, especially considering that 2011 season has yet to begin? What makes this R2C2 quartet so special is how well they have all pitched over the last three seasons. The question then becomes if any starting staff ever amassed as high of an SNLVAR tally in the three years prior to pitching together? Are the Phillies potentially walking on undiscovered ground?
My goal here is not to evaluate how well certain groups of starters pitched while in the same rotation, but rather how much collective talent was assembled for particular staffs, to decipher which rotations, entering a season, had as much going for them as the 2011 Phillies. I pooled together all starters who made at least 25 starts for a team in any season from 1954 onward. I then added their SNLVAR total in each of the three preceding years. As an example, the 1998 Braves got 25 or more starts that season from Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, and Denny Neagle. That foursome combined to produce 90.64 wins from 1995-97. Maddux led the way at 28.96, followed by Glavine at 22.05, Smoltz at 21.38, and Neagle at 18.25. Neagle’s tally, though last amongst that rotation, is still fantastic at an average of over six wins per year.
Essentially, what we are measuring here is what rotations would have received similar reactions to that of the 2011 Phillies, based on what has fueled our reactions to this staff so far. The rationale for restricting the target year to pitchers with 25 or more starts is to avoid a situation where a team is credited with more SNLVAR starts than is capable of being achieved. For instance, the 2002 Yankees received just eight starts from Jeff Weaver. Does it really make sense to include his 1999-2001 numbers in their three-year total, when he did not factor into much of their success? By including a pitcher along these lines, the Yankees would reap the benefit of Weaver’s 13.29 SNLVAR from 1999-2001, inflating their total over that span. With that in mind, here are the top 10 rotations in the Retrosheet era based on these criteria:
Team |
Year |
3 Prior Years |
SNLVAR – 3 Prior Years |
1998 |
1995-97 |
90.64 |
|
Atlanta Braves |
1995 |
1992-94 |
78.70 |
1972 |
1969-71 |
77.17 |
|
Atlanta Braves |
1997 |
1994-96 |
76.75 |
2004 |
2001-03 |
74.89 |
|
Los Angeles Dodgers |
1966 |
1963-65 |
74.86 |
1972 |
1969-71 |
74.19 |
|
Los Angeles Dodgers |
1973 |
1970-72 |
74.14 |
Atlanta Braves |
1999 |
1996-98 |
73.62 |
1976 |
1973-75 |
73.09 |
There is a clear line of demarcation between the 1998 Braves and everyone else, as the difference between the first two spots is greater than the separation between the second- and 10th-place teams. It should also come as no surprise that the mid- to late-‘90s Braves staffs feature so prominently on this list as the Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz trio and anyone else who came along for the ride. Both the 1998 and 1995 staffs lost out on added wins due to the strike years, which makes the numbers all the more impressive. The 1995 staff featured Steve Avery and Kent Mercker in addition to the trio, though the latter didn’t do much in the preceding years. Realistically, this group seems like a decent comparable for the 2011 Phillies, with Kyle Kendrick playing the Mercker role. However, all four of the Phillies main starters are superior to Avery.
Where do the 2011 Phillies rank? Using Kendrick as the fifth wheel as opposed to Joe Blanton, who is very likely to be traded prior to the season, here are their numbers over the last three seasons:
Name |
2008 |
2009 |
2010 |
Total |
Roy Halladay |
7.62 |
8.23 |
8.78 |
24.63 |
Cliff Lee |
7.69 |
7.44 |
5.30 |
20.43 |
Roy Oswalt |
5.66 |
4.63 |
7.21 |
17.50 |
Cole Hamels |
7.18 |
3.81 |
6.51 |
17.50 |
Kyle Kendrick |
2.13 |
2.36 |
2.16 |
6.65 |
These five pitchers total 86.71 wins via the SNLVAR statistic, which adjusts for the strength of the opposing lineup as well as the replacement level. They don’t quite top the list, although they are very clearly in second place. One could argue that Lee’s number should be bumped up a bit given that he missed a month, but the Braves also lost production due to the strike, so these differences should ultimately wash out. Others might say Blanton should be included instead of Kendrick, which actually would push the Phillies ahead, but that would be a cherry-picked move since the odds of him staying are incredibly low. No matter how you slice it, the 1998 Braves had the best rotation going into their season in baseball history, and with the addition of Cliff Lee, the Phillies rank second.
This is all on paper right now, though, and if the Phillies go out and win the World Series or win a couple over the next few seasons, it would be tough to deny their rightful place in history. What makes this feel so potentially different than the Braves teams is how the players were acquired. Though Smoltz was acquired in a trade, he was still technically raised by the Braves. Glavine was homegrown, and by 1998 Maddux was firmly entrenched as a Brave. With the Phillies, everyone aside from Hamels was acquired over the last year and a half, in rather unexpected and/or dramatic fashion. There is more shock value or oomph behind their rotation right now, but do not forget the dynamic Braves rotations of the 1990s. They are still the gold standard in starting rotations, though history may soon be rewritten.
Thank you for reading
This is a free article. If you enjoyed it, consider subscribing to Baseball Prospectus. Subscriptions support ongoing public baseball research and analysis in an increasingly proprietary environment.
Subscribe now
Unless these four Phillies pretty much sweep the pitching honors and win the World Series for the next couple of years, I think it is hard to predict what caps they might wear. Halladay seems pretty a pretty good bet for the Hall, but I don't think that Oswalt or Lee have their tickets punched yet, and of course Hamels is far too young to discuss.
Also, fangraphs also took their wayback machine to three years prior period. There are good and fair reasons for that, but lee and halladay (to a lesser extent) also lose a good clip off their performance in 2007.
Ultimately they've got to play the games. I would bet good money(especially given odds) that the giants or red sox has a higher 1-5 snlvar than the phillies in 2011. on 2012-2013, that becomes even stronger.
its only a subjective assessment w.r.t. lincecum. He is the freak. Other causes for concern exist, but weighing them in what is clearly an outlier body type is hard.
halladay lee and oswalt are old and have been worked hard. See kevin goldsteins assessment of why lee having any health issues could be disastrous for his new found level of finesse.
Halladay, who has been quite durable may have tweaked his groin in that last game of the nlcs. He certainly altered his mechanics. Obviously he has plenty of time to recover from that, but 270 innings can take their toll, even when you're as efficient as halladay is.
I guess it depends on the prospects they get in return, but I'm just wondering how that amount of cash gets determined and what's too much.
Unless of course Blanton suddenly becomes the most attractive option available and teams start to bid, offering to pay 3/4 AND give prospects.
This will most likely end up being something like one of the following scenarios:
1) Blanton is traded to Team X for nothing in return but Team X pays $13 of the remaining 17 million
2) Blanton is traded to Team X for Prospect A who will be forgotten in two years, and Team X pays $8.5 of the remaining 17 million.
And as for dumping millions into a couple of marquee pitchers, it's four. Four out of the five spots in the rotation are manned by legitimate #1 pitchers. This isn't like signing Lee and Halladay and then having Kendrick, Vance Worley, and Antonio Bastardo.
Blanton does not make an insane amount of money. Also, you say "too high of a salary". To high of a salary for what? For the amount of salary they have in mind? Where does that number come from, for one thing, and why does it suddently make sense to save $8 million and send a crappy pitcher out there every 5th day?
I understand that there is a budget, but don’t you see what I’m saying here? You’re forking over big cash for Lee, and not just to sell jerseys. They are paying for wins, so why does it make sense to pay one guy $4 million or so per win over the margin but not another guy $4 million per win over the margin? Everyone says they “have to†get rid of someone. Why? Losing two wins by jettisoning Blanton is just as likely to cost them a playoff spot as losing two wins because one of their starting pitchers is 2 wins worse than expected.
You do mention that they're probably better off with Blanton, and that's to your credit. So what is the source of the rumor that Blanton wil almost certainly be traded? Did the Phillies just come out and say that?
They are obviously better with him because he is just better than Kendrick or Worley, but THEY seem to feel saving $8.5 mil over the next two years is of the utmost importance, which does seem kind of silly when you break the bank to build this team.
1950:
112 Lemon
135 Wynn
112 Garcia
126 Feller
1951:
108 Lemon
126 Wynn
120 Garcia
109 Feller
1952:
134 Lemon
116 Wynn
141 Garcia
71 Feller
1953:
112 Lemon
96 Wynn
116 Garcia
105 Feller
99 Houtteman
1954:
134 Lemon
134 Wynn
138 Garcia
119 Feller
109 Houtteman
---------------------
2010:
165 Halladay
130 Lee
132 Hamels
143 Oswalt
84 Blanton
2009:
159 Halladay
131 Lee
97 Hamels
100 Oswalt
104 Blanton
Looks like the Phillies group will probably be better next year than the early 50's Indians were in general, though the Phils bottom 2 or so don't seem quite as reliable, for lack of a better way to put it. They'll use Kendrick instead of Blanton, which is dumb, so that will cost them.
Halladay and Lee are consistent, though we'll build a slight regression in for each. The real Hamels is probably somewhere between 2009 and 2010, though leaning toward 2010. We'll split the difference with Oswalt and make Kendrick 10% worse than league average, which is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this then:
2011:
150 Halladay
125 Lee
120 Hamels
121 Oswalt
90 Kendrick
This is about where the Indians were at their best, and better, generally, than they were in the early 50's, with 1954 being the exception. Too bad we have 5-man rotations now.
Yes, Maddox, Glavine, Smoltz, and whoever else pitched with them set the more modern standard of rotation excellence. Steve Avery had his three superlative years that came just before Maddox's arrival in 1993. Hence, they were a very comparable rotation. However, Avery went downhill fast from there. It will be earily similar if Cole Hamels falls apart. Denny Neagle's arrival in 1997 gave them four aces again. That lasted two years - just in time for Kevin Millwood to mature into a pitcher who went 18-7, 228 innings, 2.68 ERA in 1999. However, he wasn't consistently very good.
How about the 1966 Dodgers? Just in terms of personnel, their rotation was up there with any of those: Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen, and a rookie Don Sutton who debuted with 226 innings and a 2.99 ERA.