Note: If you've already listened to today's episode of Effectively Wild, some of this may sound familiar.
If you think about it, the Royals and Rays, the two teams that completed a massive prospects-for-pitchers trade on Sunday, are a lot alike. Both teams are among the have-nots of the American League, competing with payrolls in the mid-60-millions (last season). Neither one draws well—in the Royals’ case, because of all the losing and because Kansas City is small, and in the Rays’ case, because of all the past losing, the newness of the franchise, and the ugliness and location of the ballpark, where it’s almost impossible to catch a foul ball without some painful and/or embarrassing consequence. To compensate for the lack of revenue, both teams try to draft, develop, and extend homegrown players as an alternative to paying for wins from free agents, and both have had among the finest farm systems in baseball for the past few seasons.
There are, obviously, as many things that separate the Royals and Rays as there are things that tie them together, from the perception that the Rays are more stat-savvy to the way the word “process” is capitalized by people who write about the Royals to the Royals’ affection for Jeff Francoeur, which isn’t unrelated to the Rays’ lead in perceived stat-savviness. But in the areas that don’t change, or change very slowly—the ones that have more to do with institutional factors like market size than with which regime is running the team at any particular time—the Royals are the Rays without the recent success.
And that’s why it’s so fascinating that it was these two teams making this trade, instead of, say, a club out of contention shedding salary and restocking for the future. Both of these teams are attempting, if not quite expecting, to make the playoffs in 2013, and neither is at the end of its success cycle (if success cycles still exist in a multi-wild-card world). You’d think the Rays, who’ve overcome similar obstacles and a long run of losing, would be the model for the perpetual also-ran Royals. But while this trade is about the Royals returning to the playoffs, which would in one sense make them more like the Rays, it’s also about the Royals either giving up or dramatically reducing their long-term chance to be like Tampa Bay.
Thanks to recent research into prospect value and the expected return on draft picks and the greater availability of minor-league stats and scouting info, it’s possible to weigh the expected value of Wil Myers, Jake Odorizzi, Mike Montgomery, and Patrick Leonard—only one of whom has made his major-league debut—against the expected values of James Shields and Wade Davis over the next two and five seasons, respectively, and declare a winner that way. On our podcast last month, Sam Miller and I speculated that it’s precisely that unprecedented ability to assign values to unproven players which is prompting teams to consider top prospects potential trade chips instead of off-limits assets. Once you can quantify what a prospect is worth, you know what another team would have to give up to get him. Then you can break your prospect piggy bank and treat your young players like any others: available for the right price. Analyze this trade in terms of expected value, and the Rays come out ahead, which partly explains why much of the baseball internet has come down on Andrew Friedman’s side.
On the surface, the Royals side of this swap looks bold and ambitious. What could be bolder than trading baseball’s top prospect, or more ambitious than trying to send Kansas City to the postseason for the first time since Davis was in diapers? But as much risk as the Royals are incurring, they’re really playing it safe, increasing the odds of immediate gratification (if any gratification long-suffering Royals fans feel can be described as “immediate”) at the potential expense of sustainable success. This trade makes them more likely to reach the playoffs next season and possibly in 2014, too, depending on how quickly Myers comes into his own, but it seemingly lowers their ceiling in 2015 and beyond, even with Davis signed through 2017. The Royals won the prospect lotto, but instead of opting for the annual annuity that could have kept them in contention as regularly as the Rays, they chose to receive the lump sum and splurge. Even when they aimed high, they set their sights low.
What the Myers trade seems to suggest is that the Royals are counting on their competitive window to close, while the Rays, having finally jimmied their own window open and propped it there for the past five seasons, are expecting it to stay that way. “We are short-stacked relative to our director competitors,” Friedman said in September. “So I think that motivates and challenges all of us.” From the outside, it seems as if the Royals were intimidated, not motivated, by the burden of balling on a budget. Maybe David Glass wouldn’t pony up for Anibal Sanchez (and for what it’s worth, signing free-agent starters isn’t part of the Rays’ playbook), and maybe Dayton Moore knows that the non-Salvador Perez part of the core won’t sign extensions, dooming the current incarnation of the Royals to a relatively short shelf life as a competitive team. Regardless of those conditions, though, it looks like the Royals have imposed some limitations on their own success, despite having already demonstrated a knack for keeping their pre-arb pipeline flowing.
There’s nothing wrong, in the abstract, with using surplus parts to strengthen areas in need of an upgrade. Few teams go from fifth place to first solely by promoting prospects: one of the benefits of cultivating a strong system is the ability to leverage minor leaguers to put the last big-league pieces in place. The Royals haven’t shown the Rays’ talent for developing pitching, and they play in a more winnable division. Plus, as Jason Parks pointed out yesterday, it’s not as if the package the Rays received totally depleted the rich Royals’ system. And maybe Myers isn’t worth what his public prospect rankings would suggest, which seems plausible if, as Jeff Passan reported, the A’s really turned down a straight-up swap of Myers for the fragile left arm of Brett Anderson.
But whatever Myers is, he wouldn’t have been redundant on the Royals’ roster. Moore might not agree that Francoeur was last season’s least valuable player, but he’d probably agree that Myers is likely to be both cheaper and more productive than Francoeur by the end of 2013, when Frenchy will be a free agent. (If the best minor leaguer isn’t at least as good as the worst major leaguer, then there’s something wrong with replacement level.) The Royals’ roster is skewed toward position players, but as Sam pointed out on the podcast today, a run scored is roughly as valuable as a run saved, and the boost from [insert Royals rotation candidate here] to Shields might not be much bigger than the one from Francoeur to Myers, especially after this season.
Despite that, there is, I think, one way for the Royals to come out ahead here, though it’s not as simple as earning a single playoff appearance, as some have suggested. One playoff appearance with Shields could come at the expense of multiple playoff appearances with Myers, and as cathartic for Kansas City as that first trip back to October would be, Royals fans aren’t quite so starved for success that they’d all prefer one cookie now to two cookies in 10 minutes. To win this trade, the Royals have to beat the Rays at their own game.
In November of 2007, the Rays were on the edge of contention, though not everyone knew it: their regular-season record (like the 2012 Royals’) didn’t suggest a team about to take the next step. Those Rays, like the current Royals, had hitters: what they needed was pitching and defense. And so they dealt from a position of strength to address a weakness, trading Delmon Young and Brendan Harris (and Jason Pridie) to the Twins for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett (and Eduardo Morlan). Young, like Myers, had been the top prospect in baseball as a projected right fielder, and he’d finished second in AL Rookie of the Year voting that season. Also like Myers, he’d just turned 22.
Kevin Goldstein, arguing for the Twins’ side of the trade the next day, took the position that Delmon was the best player in the deal and would make the Rays regret trading him. Joe Sheehan, taking Tampa Bay’s side, wrote this:
With this deal, the Rays have shifted from collecting talent to forming it into a baseball team, and this trade shows how seriously they take the process. Trading a player with the perceived value of Young is never easy, but with it they've leveraged a gap between that perceived value and what he actually is to make their team better.
It’s hard to see the same flaws in Myers that were evident in Young even then, though as R.J. Anderson pointed out recently, it’s somewhat worrisome that Myers is one of the only prospects of his caliber to be traded before ever taking the field for the team that drafted him. What we know is that the Royals now are at the same stage those recently renamed Rays were in late 2007: trying to turn a pile of prospect talent into a winning team at the major-league level. Whether this trade helps them accomplish that goal depends on whether Myers has a Delmon-sized “gap between that perceived value and what he actually is.” If Myers is the next Young—consensus top prospect turned replacement-level player—then the Royals will have out-Raysed the Rays, trading a flawed young player at the peak of his value, when his potential still seemed likely to pan out. Otherwise, by fixating on a brief target for contention, they may have failed to follow the Rays’ blueprint for small-market success.
Thanks to Sam Miller for any podcast content retraced here.
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Montgomery? Well...it will be interesting to see if they can fix him. At this point he looks like strictly a bullpen arm to me. He could be a nice cheap bullpen asset, though, but I'm not sure how much that would help mitigate the possibility that Myers becomes Young v.2.
The point isn't that it's inconceivable for the Royals to compete, it's that it requires a set of things to go right on the order of the 2012 Orioles. Obviously if you play enough seasons of baseball that will happen sometimes, as it did last year, but does anyone want to be in the position of hoping for that confluence of events? If Butler's power regresses at all, or Guthrie isn't a low-3 ERA starter, or either Hosmer or Moustakas don't develop exactly as the Royals hope they will be, or the bullpen regresses at all, or one of any number of things, they don't have a shot. It's not that all of these things need to go wrong, but if any one or two of them does, the Royals are out. It's not a 0% shot for them to make the playoffs, but I can't believe anyone would feel comfortable making that gamble.
Were the Texas Rangers making this deal, I totally get it -- they also need pitching, have a good farm system, etc., and someone like Shields could make a significant difference in their playoff chances. But the Texas Rangers aren't making this deal. The Royals have essentially cemented themselves a 3rd place finish in the Central, with a small chance for more, at the expense of a few really valuable assets (money, Myers, high draft picks, large draft budgets, and other potentially useful pieces). This would've been a silly deal to make pre-2012 too -- you make deals like this when it's likely to make a difference in winning something. Unless we think that Dayton Moore really knows something more about the players involved than the Rays do, from an ex ante perspective (before resolving the uncertainty in each player's performance), it's hard to understand the rationale.
What's the alternative? Trade Butler and Gordon for yet another round of prospects? At some point you have to take a shot at actually winning ball games. The Royals are just counting on the idea that their scouts are right about their young players' breakout chances, not Bill James. It's reasonable and necessary.
If Pittsburgh traded Starling Marte, Jameson Taillon, and a couple lottery tickets for James Shields and Wade Davis, would people think that was a good idea? I'm not sure if it would be for Pittsburgh, and they're starting from way closer to the playoff picture than the Royals are.
The sad thing is that there's no way to judge the trade -- even if it doesn't work out for the Royals, I can't really claim that as evidence that it was a bad trade to make for the Royals, or vice versa. That'd be like claiming that lottery tickets are good investments for people who win the lottery but bad investments for everyone else (it's the same investment, only the uncertainty resolved differently for each person). The only thing we can do is disagree about the gamble the Royals are taking.
Adam Jones and he put up virutally the same line at the same age in the same league. Adam Jones put up a 700 OPS his first year in the MLs. Did I mention Jones plays a premium defensive position.
There's things to like about this trade for both teams imo. That's why it got done. I just don't agree w the idea floated heavily on the interwebs that somehow the Royals sold their future down the river. They traded a good, not great, prospect for a very good ML SP, or, you know, the rarest and most valuable commodity in baseball. There's endless scenarios where they come out well ahead in this trade.
As an aside, there's also been no real good explanation on why Myers didn't get some major league at bats last year. Did they lack confidence in him? Wanted him to work on defense? I'm not sure if there's another GM who wouldn't have given him a September cup of coffee.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-bright-side-of-losing-santana/
http://www.philbirnbaum.com/btn2007-08.pdf (The Victor Wang article)
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4291
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15306
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17276
Etc.
Myers did not get a call-up this year, and the Royals know Myers better than anyone else. For now I have to give the Royals the benefit of the doubt. If the other Royals "can't miss" prospects come around, maybe the Royals can pull it off.
Give me a choice between taking $1 million, or flipping a coin and getting $4 million if it comes up heads. On expected return alone, I should obviously go for the coin flip, but personally there's no way in hell I would do it. The certainty of $1 million is far too valuable to me. Warren Buffet would probably flip the coin. I would flip the coin if I knew I could play the game 15 or 20 times. But if I only get one shot at it, screw expected value. I'm the Royals and the Rays are Warren Buffet. Making the playoffs and being viewed as competitive has immense value to the Royals right now(I'm told the first million is that hardest to make), the Rays are already stacked and competitive, they're already rich and can afford to take chances.
I think the trade makes sense for both teams, and since the Rays are assuming more risk(in terms of potential MLB performance vs actual MLB performance) they are being compensated appropriately with a higher overall expected return.
I think it was Nate Silver who wrote a long time ago on BP about marginal wins. Basically, if you're an 85 win team, 5 wins matters much more to you than if you are a 70 win team because those 5 wins can put the 70 win team into the playoffs.
Have the Royals really made enough changes to leapfrog the White Sox and Tigers for the AL Central lead? Was it worth the risk based on Myers' potential? Could the Royals have acquired starting pitching another way, either through free agency or through a less expensive trade in terms of rookies?
Because that's basically what a prospect is, that $4 million coin flip (though some prospects and coin flips are worth more than others). And, as noted, people who look at things long-term like Warren Buffett or the Rays, tend to go for the long-term coin flips. Sure, the Rays get their Brignacs but they also get their Longorias and Prices.
My small observation involves projections of prospects of the quality of a Will Myers. Everybody seems to be sensitive to the downside risks; the Rays are taking a risk that Myers won't live up to the expectation that he'll be an everyday player and occassional all-star. But there is upside variation around the mean too. When you're talking about a guy who's in BP's top 20 prospect circle, you really don't know what his ceiling is until he gets to the big leagues and plays a few years. Does he have the smarts and makeup to make the adjustments necessary to thrive at that level? I'm thinking about guys like Ryan Braun, Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Kemp, none of whom were considered elite prospects, if I recall, until they became elite major leaguers.
So I'm just saying that, with the advance of the projection methods Ben mentions, we sometimes cut the prospect distinctions too fine. Myers has as good a chance as any to become one of the top bats of the coming decade. Shields is a fine pitcher but he's replaceable. If I'm in the Rays' postition I'm going to make that trade.
Is this a trade that Dayton could've/should've done in June/July?
By then, it should be clearer whether the Royals are pretenders or contenders and a better idea of the quality of their lineup and pitching. There's a decent chance that Shields would be cheaper since there wouldn't be as much time left on his contract and if the Rays aren't in contention, they may be more apt to deal him at a discount. This kind of mindset would be similar to the Pirates acquiring Wandy Rodriguez et all at the break.
I don't have the statistical chops to study the matter, but there seems to be a qualitative thought that there is value now - just like a contract with equal terms across five years is actually more valuable now than later, due to inflation.
. the fact we are actually now considered a contender. This trade has been a lot of fun to debate with friends, co-workers and other random KC folk. KC is a baseball town starved for a winner. As a fan our perception is that we are ready. It isn't backed by statistical evidence
With this offense, the Royals have almost no chance of contending. This trade basically solidifies them a 3rd place finish. 79-83, shall we say?